Grant Lee is the co-founder of Gamma, the AI-powered presentation tool that’s one of the hottest and most interesting AI startups in the world right now. They’re valued at over $2 billion, and they hit $100 million ARR in just over two years, with a lean team of just around 50 people. Unlike many fast-growing AI startups, Gamma has been profitable for most of its history, has not raised significant funding, and they built a massive business in a category most investors dismissed. In fact, one investor told Grant his idea was “the dumbest idea he had ever heard.”

We discuss:

How Gamma found product-market fit by rethinking their onboarding [09:52]
Their process for building a “word-of-mouth machine” [13:16]
How they leveraged more than 1,000 micro-influencers instead of big names [41:19]
Why focusing on the “first 30 seconds” transformed their business [17:17]
Their approach to pricing that led to profitability within months [01:29:06]
How Grant thinks about building a durable “GPT wrapper” business [01:19:21]

YouTube →

Also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts

Brought to you by:

Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.
Justworks—The all-in-one HR solution for managing your small business with confidence
Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life

Where to find Grant Lee:

• X: https://x.com/thisisgrantlee

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantslee

Referenced:

• How AI is transforming presentations: Gamma’s story: https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/technology/artificial-intelligence/gammas-startup-journey-the-future-of-presentations-with-ai

• Gamma: https://gamma.app

• Product Hunt: https://www.producthunt.com

• Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-on-building-product-sense

• Grant’s launch post on X: https://x.com/thisisgrantlee/status/1640701282959912961

• Paul Graham’s response on X: https://x.com/paulg/status/1642051326929510400

• Smith & Diction: https://smith-diction.com

• Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai

• 1stCollab: https://www.1stcollab.com

• AKG Media: https://akgmedia.co.uk

• Dunbar’s number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

• Grant’s post on X about influencer marketing: https://x.com/thisisgrantlee/status/1966874658680303880

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com

• Notion: https://www.notion.com

• Voicepanel: https://www.voicepanel.com

• UserTesting: https://www.usertesting.com

• Cursor: https://cursor.com

• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell

• Lovable: https://lovable.dev/

• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika

• Lindy: https://www.lindy.ai

• Inside ChatGPT: The fastest-growing product in history | Nick Turley (Head of ChatGPT at OpenAI): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley

• Dependency: https://xkcd.com/2347

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Figma’s CEO: Why AI makes design, craft, and quality the new moat for startups | Dylan Field: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat

• The woman behind Canva shares how she built a $42B company from nothing | Melanie Perkins: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-making-of-canva

• Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao

• Gamma’s drone show: https://gamma.app/events/drone-show

• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

• The ultimate guide to willingness-to-pay: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-willingness

• The Lazarus Project on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81668082

• The frog of the well proverb: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chinese_Stories/The_frog_of_the_well

Recommended books:

• Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: Why That Is and What You Can Do About It: https://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Wants-Read-Your-Sh-ebook/dp/B01GZ1TJBI

• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike: https://www.amazon.com/Shoe-Dog-Memoir-Creator-Nike/dp/1501135910

• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by:

Where to find Grant Lee:

Referenced:

Recommended books:

My biggest takeaways from this conversation:

“Dumbest idea I’ve heard” to $100M ARR…

Comments on this episode are for paid subscribers