What it actually takes to build frontier models | Tulsee Doshi (Head of Product for Gemini)

Tulsee Doshi is head of product for Google’s frontier AI models, including Gemini and other multimodal models, such as Nano Banana, Genie, Veo, and Lyria.

Listen on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts

We discuss:

1. Why model development is not just engineering, but also like Snape’s potions class

2. Google’s full-stack frontier AI strategy

3. What PMs do inside a frontier AI lab

4. Tulsee’s 60-20-20 framework for balancing what works now and what’s almost working

5. How to write your first eval

6. The rising value of great PMs

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Where to find Tulsee Doshi:

• X: https://x.com/tulseedoshi

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tulsee-doshi

Referenced:

• Nano Banana: https://aistudio.google.com/models/nano-banana

• Lyria: https://deepmind.google/models/lyria

• Gemma: https://deepmind.google/models/gemma

• Gemini Audio: https://deepmind.google/models/gemini-audio

• Severus Snape: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severus_Snape

• Emmanuel Ameisen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ameisen

• Gemini 4 Argon: our next era of frontier intelligence: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/models-and-research/gemini-models/gemini-4-argon

• Inside OpenAI | Logan Kilpatrick (head of developer relations): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-openai-logan-kilpatrick-head

• Madhavi Sewak on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madhavisewak

• Wiz: https://www.wiz.io

• Scan for Good: Using AI to discover and fix high-priority exposures across public services and critical infrastructure: https://www.wiz.io/blog/scan-for-good-critical-ai-exposures

• All-In: Trump’s Super Intelligence Summit, AI Safety Accord, GDP Beats, Midterm Predictions: https://www.youtube.com/v/ZJKs08oU1zg

• Google AI Studio: https://aistudio.google.com/onboarding

• Dots: https://chatgpt.com/features/dots

• Genie: https://deepmind.google/models/genie

• Veo: https://aistudio.google.com/models/veo

• Omni: https://gemini.google/overview/video-generation

• Flow: https://flow.google.com

• NotebookLM: https://notebook.google.com

• Antigravity: https://antigravity.google/

• Eli Collins on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/elidcollins

• Developing the Monk Skin Tone Scale: https://skintone.google/the-scale

• Michael Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mibernstein

• Expert Crowdsourcing with Flash Teams: https://hci.stanford.edu/publications/2014/flashteams/flashteams-uist2014.pdf

• The Hugging Face incident and the road ahead: https://openai.com/index/hugging-face-incident-and-the-road-ahead

• Head of Claude Code: What happens after coding is solved | Boris Cherny: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/head-of-claude-code-what-happens

• Grok Bot: https://x.ai/bot

• Josh Woodward on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joshwoodward

• Muse: https://ai.meta.com/muse

• Instinct: https://instinct.co

• Spark: https://gemini.google/overview/agent/spark

• How tech workers actually feel about AI in 2026 | Annual AI sentiment survey (Noam Segal): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-tech-workers-actually-feel-about

• OpenAI’s Head of ChatGPT: We’re entering a new era of AI (again) | Tibo Sottiaux: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-head-of-chatgpt-were-entering

• Severance on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/umc.cmc.1srk2goyh2q2zdxcx605w8vtx

• Wispr Flow: https://wisprflow.ai

• TEDxConcordia: Lenny Rachitsky—Losing Serendipity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p0VK_-BoJI

• Serendipity: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0240890

• India Festival: https://www.icaportland.org

• Rambler voice input on Gboard: https://support.google.com/gboard/answer/17468539

Recommended books:

• Exhalation: https://www.amazon.com/Exhalation/dp/1529014492

• Creativity, Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration: https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Expanded-Overcoming-Inspiration/dp/0593594649

• Throne of Glass: https://www.amazon.com/Throne-Glass-1/dp/1639730958

• A Court of Thorns and Roses: https://www.amazon.com/Court-Thorns-Roses-Sarah-Maas/dp/1635575567

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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My biggest takeaways from this conversation: